Elizabeth Saye and Sele (nee Turner) 1741-1816

Elizabeth Lady Saye & Sele 1741-1816 before Ambrosden House

by Thomas Beach 1738-1806 

Elizabeth daughter of Sir Edward Turner, 2nd Bart. of Ambrosden  and his wife  Cassandra daughter of William Leigh of Adlestrop. Born 18.2.1741 married 1767 Thomas Twistleton 7th Baron Saye & Sele In the following year, 1768, Lord Saye and Sele sold Horsmans Place and other lands in Kent (his father had inherited these Twistleton estates in 1757), and this sale appears to have provided the money for a considerable amount of work which was carried out at Broughton over the next few years. This work consisted largely of redecorating much of the interior in the newly fashionable Gothick style: the hall was given a new ceiling, a small library was formed between the hall and the dining parlour; the long gallery was refurbished, the first-floor rooms between the hall and the chapel were redecorated, and a number of windows renewed.

Lord Saye and Sele died by his own hand 1.7.1788; Elizabeth died at Blandford St, Portman Sq London on the  1.4.1816 she was very rich. (The next Lord Saye & Sele didn't marry till 8.9.1794.) Mentioned in Shepperson as a guest of Paradises'. Boyle's 1792 Lord Saye & Sele 8 Manchester St

Elizabeth Say and Sele meets Fanny Burney at a Rout in 1782

Frances " Fanny " Burney  1752-1840 

Sir Gregory Page-Turner and his sisters, Lady Saye and Sele and Lady Hawke were the children of Sir Edward Turner of Ambrosden, Oxon. Bart. by Cassandra, his wife, daughter of William Leigh of Adlestrop and were at this time respectively aged 35, 42 and 36. The rout or assembly referred to was held at the house of Mr. Paradise, son of H. M. B. Consul at Salonica, in the year 1782. Miss Burney recorded the following gossip in her Diary.

Regency people held 'routs' or 'rout-parties'. an archaic use of the word 'rout' describes a large evening party or assembly. It is otherwise described as a verb "to poke, search, or rummage" or a noun "a tumultuous or disorderly crowd of persons". Both of those things may of course describe a Regency evening party.

According to Fanny Burney, Lord Saye and Sele was 'a square man, middle aged and humdrum,' points to this; and secondly that the style was both fashionable and slightly flashy, a fact which may have appealed to Lady Saye and Sele, who was considered something of a bore by many of her contemporaries. Fanny Burney met her at a rout in 1782: 'She seems pretty near fifty - at least turned forty; her head was full of feathers, flowers, jewels and gee gaws, and as high as Lady Archer's; her dress was trimmed with beads, silver, Persian sashes, and all sort of fine fancies; her face is thin and fiery, and her whole manner spoke a lady all alive (Dobson 1904, 61-65). Miss Burney took the first opportunity to 'make away this terrible set.' Twenty-four years later Mrs Austen was to write of her cousin 'Poor Lady Saye and Sele to be sure is rather tormenting, although sometimes amusing, and affords Jane many a good laugh, but she fatigues me sadly on the whole' (Jenkins 1948, 125).

The following text is from Fanny Burney's diary and described her encounter with Elizabeth Lady Saye and Sele ,her sister Cassandra Lady Hawke and brother Sir Gregory Page-Turner:

Mrs. Paradise - "Miss Burney, Lady Saye-and-Sele desires the honour of being introduced to you". Her ladyship stood by her side. She seems pretty near fifty at least turned forty; her head was full of feathers, flowers, jewels, and gewgaws, and as high as Lady Archer's; her dress was trimmed with beads, silver, Persian sashes, and all sorts of fine fancies; her face is thin and fiery, and her whole manner spoke a lady all alive.

"Miss Burney" cried she (Lady Saye-and-Sele) with great quickness, and a look all curiosity, "I am very happy to see you; I have longed to see you a great while; I have read your performance, and an quite delighted with it. I think it's the most elegant novel I ever read in my life, such a style! I am quite surprised at it, I can't think where you got such invention!" You may believe this was a reception not to make me very loquacious. I did not know which way to turn my head.

"I must introduce you" continued her ladyship, to my sister (Lady Cassandra Hawke); she'll be quite delighted to see you. She has written a novel herself; so you are sister authoresses. A most elegant thing it is, I assure you; almost as pretty as yours, only not quite so elegant. She has written two novels, only one is not so pretty as the other. But I shall insist upon your seeing them. One is in letters like yours, only yours is prettiest; it is called "The Mausoleum of Julia!" What anfeeling things, thought I, are I'm sure I never heard them go about thus praising me! my sisters! Mrs. Paradise then again came forward, and taking my hand, led me up to her ladyship's sister, Lady Hawke, saying aloud, and with a courteous smirk, "Miss Burney, ma'am, authoress of Evelina". "les cried my friend, Lady saye-Sele, who followed me close, "it's the authoress of Evelina; so you are sister authoresses! "

Lady Hawke rose and curtsied. She is much younger than her reckoned sister, and rather pretty; extremely languishing, delicate and pathetic; apparently accustomed to be toke upon as the genius of her family, and well contented to be looked upon as a creature dropped from the clouds.

I was then seated between their ladyships, and Lady S. and S. drawing as near to me as possible, said - "Well, and so you wrote this pretty book! - and pray did your Papa know of it ?" "No ma'am; not till some months after the publication." "So I've heard; it's surprising! I can't think how you invented it! there's a vast deal of invention in it! And you've got so much humour too! Now my sister has no humour Her’s is all sentiment. You can't think how I was entertained with that old grandmother and her son!"

I suppose she meant Tom Branghton for the son.

"How much pleasure you must have had in writing it; had not you?"

Yes, ma'am.

"So has my sister; she's never without a pen; she can't help writing for her life. When Lord Hawke is travelling about with her, she keeps writing all the way."

"Yes" said Lady Hawke; "I really can't help writing. One has great pleasure in writing the things; has not one Miss Burney?"

Ye- s ma'am.

"But your novel" cried Lady Saye-and-Sele, "is in such a style! so elegant! I'm vastly glad you made it end happy".

"Yes" said Lady Hawke, with a languid smile, "I was vastly glad when she married Lord Orville. I was sadly afraid it would not have been."

"My sister intends", said lady Saye-and-Sele to print her Mausoleum, just for her own friends and acquaintances".

"Yes", said Lady Hawke, "I have never printed yet."

"I saw Lsdy Hawke's name, quoth I to my first friend, "as- cribed to the play of Variety."

"Did you indeed ?" cried Lady Saye in an ecstacy. "Sister do you know Miss Burney saw your name in the newspapers, about the play! "

"Did she", said lady Hawke, smiling cpmplacently. "But I really did not write it; I never wrote a play in my life."

"Well", cried Lady Saye, "but do repeat that sweet part that I am so fond of you know what I mean; Miss Burney must hear it, out of your novel you know!"

Lady Hawke. - "No, I can't; I have forgot it."

Lady Saye & Sele. - Oh no! I am sure you have not; I insist upon it." Lady B. - But I know you can repeat it yourself; you have so fine a memory; I am sure you can repeat it."

Lady Saye & Sele. - "Oh but I should not do it justice! that's all,- I should not do it justice!"

Lady Hawke then bent forward, and repeated - "If when he made the declaration of his love, the sensibility that beamed in his eyes was felt in his heart, what pleasing sensations and soft alarms might not that tender avowal awaken!"

"And from what ma'am" cried I astonished, and imagining I bad mistaken them, "is this taken?"

"From my sister's novel!" answered the delighted pady Saye- and-Sele, expecting my raptures to be equal to her own; it's in the Mausoleum, - did you not know that ? Well, I can't think how you can write these sweet novels! And it's all just like that part. Lord Hawke himself says it's all poetry. For my part, I'm sure I never could write so. I suppose, Miss Burney, you are producing another. "gn't you?"

"No ma'am"

"Oh, I daresay you are. I dare say you are writing one this very minute".

Mrs. Paradise now came up to me again, followed by a square man, middle-aged, and humdrum, who, I found, was Lord Saye-and -Sele afterwards from the Kirwans; for though they introduced him to me, I was so confounded by their vehemence and their manners, that I did not hear his name."

"Miss Burney" said Mrs. P. presenting me to him, "authoress of Evelina! "

"Yes", cried Lady Saye-and-Sele, starting up, 'tis the au- thoress of Evelina. "

"Of what?" cried he.

"Of Evelina. You'd never think it, - she looks so young, to have so much invention, and such an elegant style! Well, I could write a play, I think, but I'm sure I could never write a novel".

"Oh yes, you could if you would try" said Lady Hawke. "Oh no I could not" answered she; "I could not get a

style - that's the thing I could not tell how to get a style! and a novel's nothing without a style you know".

"Why no" said Lady Hawke; "that's true. But then you write such charming letters, you know".

"Letters"! repeated Lady Saye. and Sele. simpering; do you think so? Do you know I wrote a long letter to Mrs. Ray just before I came here, this very afternoon - quite a long letter! I did, I assure you"!

Here Mrs. Paradise came forward with another gentleman, younger, slimmer and smarter, and saying to me, "Sir Gregory Page-Turner", said to him, "Miss Burney, authoress of Evelina". At which Lady Saye and Sele, in frrsh transport, again rose, and rapturously again repeated - "Yes, she's the authoress of Evelina"! Have you read it?

"No is it to be had?"

"Oh dear, yes! it's been printed thrse two years! you'd ne- ver think it! But it's the most elegant novel I have read ever in my life. Writ in such a style!"

"Certainly", said be very civilly; "I have every inducement to get it. Pray where is it to be had? everywhere I suppose?" "Oh nowhere, I hope!" cried I wishing at that moment it had never been in human ken.

My square friend, Lord Saye and Sele, then putting his head forward, said very solemnly, "I'll Purchase it"!

His lady then mentioned to me a hundred novels that I had never heard of, asking my opinion of them, whether I knew the authors; Lady Hawke only occasionally and languidly joining in the discourse: and then Lady Saye. and Sele., suddenly arising, beg- ged me not to move, for she should be back again in a minute, and flew to the next room.

I took, however, the first opportunity of Lady Hawke's cast- ing down her eyes, and reclining her delicate head, to make away from this terrible set; and just as I was got by the piano- forte, where I hopes Pacchioretti would soon present himself,

Mrs. Paradise again came to me and said.

"Miss Burney, Lady Saye and Sele wishes vastly to cultivate

Your acquaintance, and begs to know if she may have the honour of your company to an assembly at her house next Friday? and I ill do myself the pleasure to call for you, if you will give mе leave".

"Her ladyship does me much honour, but I am unfortunately engaged", was my answer, with as much promptness as I could command".

It may reasonably be asked why I have troubled to transcribe such arrant piffle as the foregoing conversations reason Chiefly my was to contrast may rightly be described.

the vapid utterances of grown up ladies of society of 140 or So years ago with what one might expect to hear in this year pf grace, 1923. My only wonder is how Truly "Tempora mutantur et nos mutamur in illis".